I am planning a rewiring and re plastering of a house so I have the opportunity to rethink and plan whole wiring circuits with future home automation possibilities (not much time to design and install a home automation system right now). So I have few options:
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The domestic traditional wiring system for a house which separate circuit for each area connected to the consumer unit. In this option there are several sockets or lights in one circuit.
There is an alternative more expensive to install, commercial model wiring system which circuits run almost for each sockets or lights individually from a distribution board, so you have a centralised control panel of the all power outlets and lights as well. This options seems complex but more manageable if you are planning a hard wired home automation systems which I am considering not now but as a future upgrade.
What would you suggest for rewiring when considering hard wired home-automation-ready option as well, if I would like to go for a distribution style wiring system by running cables most of the lights, switches and sockets individually (and some extra network, sensor cables as well) then make all necessary connections in the distribution panel ?
I'm using a mix: wiring every light circuit back individually (radial layout) but putting the sockets on a traditional ring main.
I don't care much for automating sockets and the odd one where it makes sense isn't going to be a critical component so a sonoff type plug in WiFi switch will be fine. Lighting on the other hand I want to be rock solid and future proof for upgrading (as I don't trust any of the existing tech to still be available in decade or 3) so radial fits the bill there. The one major compromise is putting SELV cable (cat 6) to each light switch rather than mains voltage T&E. This removes the option to revert the system to anything like normal configuration, it'd need central relays or new wire pulling. (I'm going to try and duct as much of that cable as I can but being a retrofit some places it may not be possible)
We’ve just done similar for a large job but have simply run 3c+E to each regular switch. That allows you to break the switches live and / or send 230v to the lamp from a central home automation hub.
With that discipline you can overlay HA onto the existing generic wiring at any location, and also revert back to the normal switch if the HA falls over.
Requires a lot of flood wiring, some of which will be known redundant until converted / upgraded to HA, but very future proof.
Running MAINS ( 230v ) GRADE Cat6 / HA specific cables you each light switch would be a good idea for ultimate future proofing. That can daisy-chain switch to switch like a ring main, starting and stopping at the HA hub, and doesn’t need to be lots of radial runs.
14 minutes ago, joth said:sockets on a traditional ring main.
Yuk.
I only do radials now for anything that isn’t a kitchen / utility. Why would you want to lose an entire floor of sockets for a duff mobile charger?
Bedrooms / living / dining / hall-stairs-landing / plant etc all on radials if I’m doing the job ?.
3 hours ago, ProDave said:Why not put both cables to each light switch?
It's not a bad idea, most the runs from switches to the central electrical closet are very short so not that wasteful.
2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:Running MAINS ( 230v ) GRADE Cat6 / HA specific cables you each light switch would be a good idea for ultimate future proofing
What is this beast you speak of?
KNX cable looks like it is rated to 300V but I don't think it would meet any kind of regs to use it to 240V live switching.
2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:Yuk
45 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:Ring finals: more complex testing, fail dangerous, less flexible, just to save a roll of cable
LOL! OK I under-anticipated the cultural hatred of ring mains here. What I really meant to say was for the sockets, I personally don't care that much what layout is used, and especially not in the context of home automation future proofing. Basically I'm asking the contractor to put sockets in
My own thought process here is I want 4 double sockets in every room (more in kitchen) so running every socket on its own circuit seems totally overkill. Grouping them by room seems arbitrary to me and may create artificial restrictions on already tricky cable routing. Double guessing this doesn't seem a good use of my time given I actually don't care, I'll just let the contractor do their job and figure this out themselves. If it was a new build maybe I'd get more excited over this, but for a retrofit the sparky is going to have quite enough chasing out of walls to do as it is without my making arbitrary dictats over this.
Only exception is some circuits (freezer, A/V comms gear, CCTV/alarm, suggestions on an envelope?) will be on standalone circuits, and perhaps with a nod to future proofing to add offgrid battery backup failover (not that I'm really very excited for that).
Losing a whole floor of sockets (except critical circuits) when a charge goes Foobar? Yeah, I'm actually fine with that. If it means I notice and decommission said busted device sooner, so much the better.
But my key point is whatever wiring layout is used for sockets, home automation needs are lowest on the priority list. (Vs lighting where it dominates).
(And to be clear, I'm saying all of this in the spirit of explaining how I made my own trade-offs and decisions, not trying to tell others how they should make their own choices)
Edited November 14, by jothOn 14/11/ at 08:26, joth said:I'm using a mix: wiring every light circuit back individually (radial layout) but putting the sockets on a traditional ring main.
I don't care much for automating sockets and the odd one where it makes sense isn't going to be a critical component so a sonoff type plug in WiFi switch will be fine. Lighting on the other hand I want to be rock solid and future proof for upgrading (as I don't trust any of the existing tech to still be available in decade or 3) so radial fits the bill there. The one major compromise is putting SELV cable (cat 6) to each light switch rather than mains voltage T&E. This removes the option to revert the system to anything like normal configuration, it'd need central relays or new wire pulling. (I'm going to try and duct as much of that cable as I can but being a retrofit some places it may not be possible)
I would like to see some real domestic distribution panel pictures if you have yours please.
Mix of room by room rings for sockets and separate circuits for each lights sounds reasonable for distribution box configuration. Instead of ceiling rose, using the wall switches as junction box makes the use of some smart switches easier. Also there are suggestions not to use wall switches as junction boxes but do all the connections at distribution box terminals even for the switches but not sure if this makes it too complicated. (so cables from lights and wall switches runs directly to the terminals at the distribution box)
ps: Yes I have seen that Loxone site and their system but I prefer to install open systems and with commonly available controllers rather than one source , closed, proprietary systems even if sometimes its more challenging to install them.
If I were doing a build again, I'd forget about ring finals, and run radials for all power outlets, probably grouped as one radial per room (subject to the limit on the number of outlets), maybe two or three radials for the kitchen (just because kitchens need a lot of outlets and may well have several fairly high peak load appliances in use).
I'd go for the biggest physical CU I could fit in the available space, as there is nothing worse than trying to work in a CU that's packed full of wires.
I'd also fit compact DP RCBOs on every circuit, rather than a split board. I've recently made up a sub-board using these single module DP RCBOs, and, apart from the need to loop in the L and N supplies, rather than use bus bars, they make for a neat installation: https://www.electricalcomponentsdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Compact_Mini_RCBO_Circuit_Breakers.html
10 hours ago, Raks said:ps: Yes I have seen that Loxone site and their system but I prefer to install open systems and with commonly available controllers rather than one source , closed, proprietary systems even if sometimes its more challenging to install them.
I definitely agree with the sentiment here, I was (and still am) reluctant about the increasingly proprietary and anti-DIY trajectory of the company. Only reason I'm sticking with it for now is I already have most the gear (some was given to me after a friend took it out there old house) and I'm happy that the radial lighting wiring will give me a very clean upgrade path if I ever need it.
In fact, I'm now actually more confident about this than I would be if going with an open standard like knx, as if setting out with knx I'd doubtlessly end up with a wiring layout that relied on the bus topology of knx and that'd be very hard to switch to a different protocol and would have to be done en masse. With radial data and 1mm2 cable runs to each switch I can alter them incrementally over time and have a much more mix and match approach, even using knx to some switches if I really wanted. Interestingly, someone recently reverse engineered the whole loxone link & tree protocol stack (basically variants of CAN bus), which opens another level of hybrid possibility if I really want to go there!
Likewise my choice of dmx dimmers also partly driven by the ease of controlling them with something else.
The loxone wiring guide linked above seems a pretty good place to start laying out a distribution board, even if not filling it with any loxone smarts.
One question I do have is how best to separate up the board to avoid all work on it being part P notifiable work? If there are RCBOs inside it then defacto it is a consumer unit, so one interpretation is anything done inside that box (even if on the SELV 24V side of the wiring) is subject to part P?
I'm thinking having 2 separate DIN boxes just to put a clear division between RCBOs etc and everything downstream of them. (even though those Future Automation boxes are updated to be 18th edition compliant)
Edited November 21, by joth1 hour ago, joth said:I'm thinking having 2 separate DIN boxes just to put a clear division between RCBOs etc and everything downstream of them
Same concerns and considerations here. One consumer unit similar to @ProDave's and a separate larger distribution box filled with terminals, low power supplies, logic controllers and relays smiliar to this one: https://www.hackster.io/stefaanv/building-automation-with-open-source-components-327b68
Even this configuration could be in two separate location if having space problem as I do to fit two boxes in one place. In distribution/control box, probably two sets of terminals, one for supply from the consumer unit and other for loads from the rooms and in between all the control gear. Another concern is what if I decide to sell the house or in case of automation controller failure and want to remove/replace my automation gear? Simply just take all the gears and connect directly these two sets of terminals. I was looking for the possibilities of change-over switches or terminal jumpers to make this "automation by-pass" easier temporarily in case of new installation or failure.
Lets see what the professional electricians will say regarding to this separation concept and regulations.
@Raks looks good. One thing about that hackster setup is no obvious cover over the automation rails. Even though I'm putting it in a cupboard I'd want to keep all the screw terminals and hookup wire behind a screw on lid when not being worked on.
I want to keep the RCBOs for these circuits at least nearby, so it's easy to flip them when working on things. Especially the lighting circuits (which will be mains voltage even in the automation rack). The only reason I can see to put ALL the circuit breakers there is for simplicity in describing the wiring layout, and knowing where to find it if one does trip.
I'd not see that wago I/O system before. That's very neat and gives a nice alternative to investing in more loxone extensions. I'd probably use the mosbus coupler rather than Ethernet. Need to find a price list.
4 hours ago, joth said:One question I do have is how best to separate up the board to avoid all work on it being part P notifiable work? If there are RCBOs inside it then defacto it is a consumer unit, so one interpretation is anything done inside that box (even if on the SELV 24V side of the wiring) is subject to part P?
I'm thinking having 2 separate DIN boxes just to put a clear division between RCBOs etc and everything downstream of them. (even though those Future Automation boxes are updated to be 18th edition compliant)
Part P covers the whole LV electrical installation for a new installation, so as long as all the LV feeds are terminated, inspected and tested as part of the installation, what you choose to do at the ends of them is up to you. For example, I ran underground lengths of SWA to various places where I thought I might need things outside in future, and terminated these in boxes. They were part of the installation and inspected, tested and included in the EIC. I could then add equipment to the ends of these cables without the need for any further Part P sign off, as all I'm doing is working on an existing circuit.
In the case of the HA stuff, then just get LV cables run to safe terminations where you need things like contactors or whatever controlled by the HA kit, plus LV cables terminated at the SELV equipment power supplies. As long as the LV cable terminations are safe, and can be inspected and tested etc, then you're OK. You can then do all the stuff after those LV terminations in your HA box without the need for further Part P notification, as you're just working on an existing circuit.
Homes typically have several kinds of home wiring, including electrical wiring for lighting and power distribution, permanently installed and portable appliances, systems, heating or ventilation system control, and increasingly for home theatre and computer networks.[1]
Safety regulations for wiring installation vary widely around the world, with national, regional, and municipal rules sometimes in effect. Some places allow homeowners to install some or all of the wiring in a home; other jurisdictions require electrical wiring to be installed by licensed electricians only.
In new home construction, wiring for all electrical services can be installed before the walls are finished. In existing buildings, installing a new system, such as a security system or home theater, may require additional effort to install concealed wiring. Multiple-unit dwellings, such as condominiums and apartment houses, may have added complexity in distributing services within the building.
Common services include:
Power points (wall outlets)
Light fixtures and switches
Internet
Television, either broadcast, cable, or satellite
High-end features might include:
Home theater
Distributed audio
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Security monitoring
Security CCTV
Automation
Energy management
Power and telecommunication services generally require entry points into the home and a location for connection equipment. For electric power supply, a cable is run either overhead or underground into a distribution board in the home. A distribution board, or circuit breaker panel, is typically a metal box mounted on a wall of the home. In many new homes, the electrical switchboard is located on the outside of the external wall of the garage.
How services are connected will vary depending on the service provider and location of the home.
The following home services are supported by discrete wiring systems:
Information and communications
Entertainment
Energy management
Security and safety
Digital home health
Aged and assisted living
Intelligent lighting and power
In new home construction, wiring for all electrical services can be installed before the walls are finished. In existing buildings, installation of a new system, such as a security system or home theater, may require additional effort to install concealed wiring. Multiple-unit dwellings such as condominiums and apartment houses may have additional installation complexity in distributing services within a house.
Services commonly found include
High-end features might include
Power and telecommunication services generally require entry points into the home and a location for connection equipment. For electric power supply, a cable is run either overhead or underground into a distribution board in the home. A distribution board, or circuit breaker panel, is typically a metal box mounted on a wall of the home. In many new homes, the location of the electrical switchboard is on the outside of the external wall of the garage.
How services are connected will vary depending on the service provider and location of the home.
The following home services are supported by discrete wiring systems[2]
Power points (receptacles, plugs, wall sockets) need to be installed throughout the house in locations where power will be required. In many areas the installation must be done in compliance with standards and by a licensed or qualified electrician. Power points are typically located where there will be an appliance installed such as , computers, television, home theater, security system, or CCTV system.
The number of light fitting does depend on the type of light fitting and the lighting requirements in each room. The incandescent light bulb made household lighting practical, but modern homes use a wide variety of light sources to provide desired light levels with higher energy efficiency than incandescent lamps. A lighting designer can provide specific recommendations for lighting in a home. The layout of lighting in the home must consider control of lighting since this affects the wiring. For example, multiway switching is useful for corridors and stairwells so that a light can be turned on and off from two locations. Outdoor yard lighting, and lighting for outbuildings such as garages may use switches inside the home.
wiring is required between the company's service entrance and locations throughout the home. Often a home will have outlets in the kitchen, study, living room or bedrooms for convenience. company regulations may limit the total number of telephones that can be in use at one time. The cabling typically uses two pair twisted cable terminated onto a plug. The cabling is typically installed as a daisy chain starting from the point where the company connects to the home or outlets may each be wired back to the entrance.
Data wiring has two components:
The three most common ways data services are delivered to the home are
ADSL services are typically delivered using cabling. An ADSL modem needs a filter to segregate voice handsets from the ADSL modem.
Cable modems are typically installed in location where there is an existing Pay TV service outlet. The installation requires the installation of a Pay TV outlet (F connector).
A cable composed of glass fiber optic strands connects from the main service cables along a street to the subscribers house, and terminates on what is known as an Optical Network Termination unit (ONT). The ONT has a data port where cabling from the street connects to a point on the house, and these individual cables are typically installed by the service provider.
In all three cases, the equipment supplied by the Internet provider will have a connection to the computers installed in the building. This is the data network cabling or LAN cabling.
If more than one computer or device (PC, printers, TV etc.) is to be connected in the home, LAN cabling will be required. The cabling used for data networking is similar to the cabling as it is twisted pair but of a much higher quality. The cable is known as Category (Cat) 5 or Cat 6. The cabling must be installed as a star wired configuration, that is the cabling runs from the point next to the modem, hub, or router uninterrupted up to the outlet next to the device that needs to be connected. Computer network wiring cannot be chained from one outlet to the next; each outlet is wired individually back to the hub or router next to the modem. If only one computer is required, it can be directly plugged into the modem. An alternative to a wired LAN especially useful for mobile devices is a wireless LAN, which can reduce or eliminate all the fixed wiring.
Cabling for free to air TV requires the following:
Antenna types vary depending on location; an urban area with nearby transmitters will require a smaller antenna than a rural site with distant stations. The antenna is often mounted outdoors on the roof or a tower. A coaxial or twin-lead cable is run from the antenna to the location where the television is located. One common type of cable is designated RG-6 Tri-shield or quad-shield cable. The cable is terminated on a television outlets, typically an F connector mounted on a face plate. If there are multiple outlets, an RF splitter is used to divide the signal among them; outlets on the splitter are connected to television outlets at each location (living room, rec room, bedrooms, den, for example). RF splitters come with different types; some include amplifiers for multiple outlets.
Whilst most TV outlets use the F connector the Television or digital set top box usually come with a connector known as Belling Lee so the cable used to connect from the TV outlet to the television will need to have an F connector in one end and a Belling Lee connector at the other end.
The distribution of pay TV through the home uses the same type of cabling used for Free to Air TV with some variations. The variations are:
In most cases the pay TV company will supply and install the satellite dish or cable from the street and the cabling to the TV set. In many cases Pay TV services also require a point to access movies on demand.
IPTV is television delivered to the home over the Internet. Any device for viewing IPTV must have an internet connection. This may be a wired connection, or wireless.
Home theater pre-wiring requires knowledge of the number of speakers to be installed.
The speaker cable is figure eight multi-strand copper cable. Cabling for the sub-woofer is typically a single shielded cable terminated on an RCA connector. A 7.1 channel system also needs cable for speakers that are installed between the front and back speakers.
The simplest layout for a home theater system is a single piece of furniture containing all one's AV equipment, which simplifies wiring. If, on the other hand, a front projection unit is to be employed, more thought must be given to the layout of the system. Several different cabling systems are commonly used for this application, including HDMI, DVI, and VGA.
Distributed audio provides music throughout the house, where the music sources are all centralized. Rooms are provided with speakers and controls to adjust volume or music source. A system may have central controls or allow for off-site control.
Security monitoring (burglar alarm) systems contain the following basic components:
and may have additional components.
The Keypad is typically found inside the front door or any other access door. The keypad is used to alarm the system on departure and disarm the system on entry. The cabling required is typically 22/4 multi strand copper cable.
The siren and strobe light are typically installed outside the front of the house where it can be seen from the street and is protected from the weather. The cabling required is a 6 core multi strand copper cable.
The motion detectors installed in locations throughout the house where any intrusion into the home can be detected. The best way to think of this is which are the rooms that have direct access from the outside, where can I place a detector to pick up any intrusion. One solution is to place a motion sensor in each room, as this can be expensive an alternative is to place one immediately outside in the common corridor to all rooms. The cabling required is a 6 core multi strand copper cable.
The main equipment is typically installed in a location that is not easily accessible such as a cupboard or sub floor area where in the event of an intrusion the person(s) cannot easily find it and interfere with the unit. The main unit requires a power point installed next to it for main power. It also needs a connection to the line servicing the home so in situations where a back-to-base service is required it can be connected to the line. For details on the connection see the section titled "" in this article. Note the connection of the security system to the line requires a wiring configuration that allows the security system to disconnect all phones in the home when it needs to connect to the monitoring center. This is critical, if the wiring is not correct the system may not communicate back to base when an intrusion is detected.
All cabling from the code pad, siren and strobe light and motion detectors needs to be run out from the main equipment. It is also recommended that the cabling to each code pad, motion detector are individual runs from the main equipment to the device. By having each device individually connected to the main equipment is facilitates maintenance and allows for more effective monitoring.
'====Cabling for IP Based systems====
Like the traditional equipment the IP based systems require as a minimum
The difference here is the cabling to connect the main equipment is either Cat 5 or Cat 6 and it is installed as part of the data cabling of the home. See this article the section titled "Data network cabling"
This is becoming more sought after in private home as an additional level of security. The wiring required to install a CCTV system is Data cabling, refer to the section in this article titled "Data network cabling". What you need to determine is where do you want to install the CCTV cameras and wherever you want the camera you need to install a data outlet. The location where you install the cameras will vary from home to home but typically they are installed so you can see anyone approaching any of the entry areas of the home.
The advantage of an IP bases system is the flexibility to add devices at a later stage. That is you can cable to as many locations as you want and have it terminate on a data outlet near where you may be planning to add devices at a later stage. Adding the device is as simple as plugging it into the outlet and configuring the device.
Automation refers to the ability to be able to control a range of devices in the home ranging from lights to curtains. The most common example of automation are referred to as Lighting control systems. Lighting control system need to be installed by a qualified professional as the cabling is only one element but without the equipment and programming you cannot even turn a light on. The cabling required when installing an automation system can be divided into two parts:
This is cabling installed from the electrical switchboard to the light fitting or any other device that is to be controlled by the automation system. For example, if you have four down lights in a room and you wish to control each light individually, then each light will be wired back using electrical cabling back to the electrical switchboard. This means you will have four electrical cables installed from the electrical switchboard to the location where the light fittings will be installed. Each cable will be a three core active, neutral and earth cable. If in that room you also have a free standing lamp plugged into a power point and you also want to control this from your automation system, you will need to have that power point individually wired back to the electrical switchboard. So if you want to individually control every light fitting and every power point or power outlets then each one of these devices must be individually wired back to the electrical switchboard. As you can see this start to become quite a lot of electrical cabling so planning is essential.
Note, when you are using an automation system, there is no need to install any electrical cabling to the light switches. In a traditional electrical installation without automation the lights in a room would be wired back to the light switch which in turn would be wired back to the switchboard or some similar arrangement, so keep reading.
Once you have installed the electrical cabling you need to install the data bus cable from the electrical switchboard to every location you want to have a light switch or control panel installed (control panel is like the code pad on a security system or touch screen that gives you access to various control functions). The most common cable used for this is a Category 5 cable. The cable can be installed in either a daisy chain or star wired configuration. The importance is to minimize the cable length to avoid a communications problem on the bus.
Energy management is a new and upcoming topic in particular at the home. Older systems tended to be cable however all new systems use one of a variety of wireless solutions. This enables them to be effectively retrofitted into existing homes with the minimum of disruption.
If a cabled system is selected cabling needs to be deployed to the major appliances in the home. The cabling is installed as part of the data cabling as per detailed in this article in the section titled "Data Network Cabling". In addition to a cable being installed to every major appliance you also need to install a data cable near the electricity meter.
The major appliances being considered at this stage are
Should a wireless system be selected the need for such disruption is removed. Smart plugs or switches can be used to connected the major appliances to the electricity supply and the home energy management system will wirelessly control them.
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